Amazon software engineer and EdTech founder Karthik Senthil on the future of education.

Some things we covered:

  • how the current education system is broken and how to fix it
  • Scarcity Mindset versus Abundance Mindset
  • Value of social aspect in learning
  • Missing elements of digital learning
  • Wealth and opportunity inequality


[0:35] Why education is broken right now
[3:05]  What needs to change in education
[5:30]  How to develop your thirst for knowledge
[7:06]  Scarcity Mindset
[9:24]  Ways digital education can transform
[10:10]  Value of social interaction while learning
[11:04]  Missing elements of digital learning
[17:40]  Hax cohort based learning platform
[20:47]  Why focus your platform on finance education
[28:58]  Shared income agreement learning model
[32:04]  Future of learning


Where you can find Karthik Senthil:

Twitter: @karsenthil
HAX Twitter: @learn_hax

HAX : Cohort based micro-courses on personal finance
Launching tentatively in early May - Sign up for the waitlist today!

References throughout the episode:




So that whether it's myself or my future generation can really begin thinking about, okay, how can I actually have money, and apply that so they can kind of chase my dreams, right? How can you set the preconditions so that the seed can grow? And for me, you need to kind of get out there and get your hands dirty and then kind of see what blooms.

Great. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show Karthik. Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it for sure.

[0:35] Why education is broken right now

I thought we could start out maybe with you telling us why you think education is broken right now. Yeah. Um, that's a loaded question just to, um, you know, I think education is broken, um, right now and th th th fundamentally for a couple of different reasons, right?

I think number one, Um, you know, education was modeled, um, uh, at least that kind of the modern version of education was really heavily modeled after, um, like it was modeled around the, in the kind of render the industrial revolution and really modeled, um, around difference that of preconditions. Right. And the preconditions, one of those modeled was really when knowledge was scarce.

Right. Um, and it was around giving people a common set of knowledge, um, and, and then giving them some common kind of paradigms to be successful on labor jobs. Right. So the ability to, to, uh, to learn language, work with other people, um, maybe some basic arithmetic, but then a huge part of education was, Hey, can you.

Um, follow rules. Can you listen to your superiors? Can you be at a place from, you know, exactly at 8:00 AM leave at 3:00 PM, kind of take these 45 minute hour shifts and it kind of was really setting you up for a. Hopefully it's successful labor career for yourself, right. Where you can kind of go and work in a factory or at a mill and kind of be successful.

Um, the, the, the rules have kind of changed now, right? Especially, I mean, they've changed for a while, but I think especially over the past, you know, 20 to 30 years, um, a couple of things have changed, right? Um, number one, um, knowledge is no longer scarce. It's really abundant, right? You know, now you can go, um, on the internet and find out and learn anything just with literally one Google query.

Right. And that's changed. The fundamentally changed the kind of the landscape, because now you don't really need to go to a school to get access to that knowledge access is actually pretty abundant. Um, and so one of the motivations for school. Um, has kind of gone away. Um, and so school hasn't really, uh, reacted to that.

And they're still, uh, attempting to teach, um, with the precondition, that knowledge is scarce for it to really abundant.

[3:05]  What needs to change in education

And so I think, um, one of the things that fundamentally needs to change about education is it needs to be modeled around what the new scarcity is, which is in my mind, um, attention. And, uh, in that vein, I think what schools really need to teach is how to learn.

How to, um, you know, uh, look at a bunch of content and figure out what's most important, um, and kind of hone your attention in the right way, um, because that's going to be what's most valuable. Right? I, I, in that, the last thing I'll say is I'll take that from my example, as a software engineer, um, When I went to school, pre-internet right.

I'm not that old, but like late nineties, 99, 2003. Um, you had to know all these details about memory allocation and all these things, because if there was a bug in your code that was on you to fix it and you couldn't really do anything else. Now, the real knowledge about computer programming is more about like, how can you.

Use the internet to kind of support you in what you're doing, because you know, you can literally copy and paste stack traces, right. And like, figure out what's going on with your code. So I think it's a different mindset shift that needs to happen in education and because it hasn't happened, um, you know, to me, education, um, is, is broken at the moment.

I was just one of the causes we can go into more later. Yeah, yeah. Um, for sure. Um, and you have a, uh, so learning how to learn. And as like, I guess the biggest metal scale. And then I would sort of want to add to that, um, a thirst for knowledge, or like an intrinsic, you know, need to, to learn, develop yourself acquire skills.

And we were kind of, um, talking about this on Twitter the other day. How do you get this? How do you scale this thirst for knowledge on the internet? Yeah. Um, I have a slightly different take on that. I actually think humans intrinsically or innately have that thirst for knowledge. It just needs to be yielded.

Right. And used to be grown.

[5:30]  How to develop your thirst for knowledge

So it's like, you know, it's kind of like similar to like that to a seed. Like I think the seed innately wants to grow into a plant, but it needs sunlight. It needs water. Right. So similarly, if you can. Find a compelling way to learn. Um, I think that is what, you know, what, whatever the age group you are, whether you're a kid, whether you're a teenager, whether you're a college student or older, um, if you can find something compelling, both material and style, um, that is what's going to really, um, develop that thirst for knowledge.

And I think that's another thing that that needs to be fundamentally shifted in our, in our take vegetation is we haven't transformed the way that we teach. Right. Um, and the, the way that I think about that, and I think COVID really accelerated that is we need to engage with people the way that they engage with everything else.

Right. So we can't, people can't be like, Normally the way I do everything is up on my phone. I'm like, you know, short bursty kind of, um, like, uh, engagement when I want it, uh, with friends and then school is this whole other thing that isn't compelling to them. Like we need to figure out a way where school or learning can happen in the same kind of, um, The same kind of way this using the same kind of tools that everything else is, because then it feels natural.

And I think that's like the best way, uh, to, to kind of harness that growth. Let me give you a little pushback on that though, because I would say already all the tools are available. They're not as, um, you know, streamlined yet. Um, but like, if you want to, you know, to stick with the programming example, if you want to teach yourself how to code, like.

[7:06]  Scarcity Mindset

You can totally do it just with a laptop and an internet connection. So then, you know, yet there's millions of people out there that.  You know, have the scarcity mindset of like, okay, I don't have a job. Um, what do I do? How do I, or maybe they do have a job, but it's like a, like a minimum wage dead end job.

And, um, cause like you're saying, um, everyone intrinsically has that thirst for knowledge. Um, yet here we are with people stuck in debt at jobs that aren't going on, Coursera, aren't going on. You, you aren't going on Khan Academy to learn a high level, you know, six figure skill. What do you, what do you say to that?

I say that, that the tools that exist today, don't meet. Th there's an unmet need that, that those tools don't meet. So I think w what I say that is Coursera and U Demi and Khan Academy are not sufficient to harness that intrinsic search, a thirst for knowledge. And I think, um, Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with you.

I think it's not that all the knowledge is out there. Like if you really want to be an expert, let's just pick a field and computer programming, personal finance, crypto, like learning about Bitcoin, um, or like learning how to ch uh, change the oil in your car. The information on the internet is so abundant that you can become a master and probably be, be better than 95% of the people that even do this as a full-time job.

Um, if you really dedicate to yourself, I think what's missing is that the ways that these information is curated and unpacked and, um, shown to users is not sufficient. And that's actually one of the things that I'm, I'm working on. I'm sure we'll get into this with what I'm building, but I think the learning ethos has to be learned by doing together.

Right. And so a lot of what's available in digital education today is what I call kind of this single player mode, right. Where you're sitting in front of a computer. Um, and you are watching somebody else tell you how this stuff works. And that's great. But to me, it's yeah, not much different than, um, reading a book about it.

Sure. It's, it's helpful, but it's not going to, and you kind of get a, you know, a nice. You might get some inspiration. It might, you know, make you make you get your butt off your chair and do something for one day or two days, but it's not going to have that staying power.

[9:24]  Ways digital education can transform

And I think what we need to transform digital education towards is, um, tools and experiences that actually, uh, do two things beyond just learning digitally consuming digitally.

Number one, um, give you the frameworks to actually do something about it. Not just.

[10:10]  Value of social interaction while learning

So you want to be read, right? Not read only and to, um, we've, you know, I think in COVID really kind of helped, um, demonstrate this, right. Is the social aspect of anything learning included has kind of been, um, uh, forgotten, so to speak in the land of kind of digital learning.

Certainly. I think we want to bring back that element. And figure out, Hey, how can you do this along with the group of people, right? Because sometimes when you do it by yourself, you know, it seems a little bit daunting. You're like, Hey, how do I actually like, learn about ginger oil in my car. I'm just watching this YouTube video, but I don't really get it.

And you have no one to ask. Right. Um, I think that. The social element of doing this stuff together, um, with people that are just like you let's imagine, you are trying to learn how to change the oil in your car, but with 30 people that were in the same boat, it's going to be much more impactful for you.

And I'm going to also keep you accountable to kind of finish the learning.

[11:04]  Missing elements of digital learning

So I think doing and together as a huge part of learning that's missing today, and I think, you know, you see the rise of cohort based classes, um, the digital learning center. I really think they aim to kind of fill that gap. Hmm.

So, yeah, so maybe let's break it down together or you break it down for us. So you're seeing student base, um, cohort based learning, um, is, uh, one huge, uh, missing factor, missing piece of the puzzle. Um, what else is there to get to that? You know, uh, let's, let's call it internet learning 2.0, um, that we all need.

Yeah. Um, I think that there's a few kind of, uh, primitives, I think that are, that are needed. Right. So, um, I think the model, the cohort based model that we just talked about is certainly something that I think will become more popular. Um, I think, um, More content. Right? I think it's just early days. Right? I know teachable and some of the other out school has a, has a good amount of content, but compared to what we need at a global scale, we just need more content, more teachers, more creators, able to kind of share the wisdom and expertise that they have across the internet.

And I think that, I think that will come. I'm not worried about that piece of it. I think that's just, it's kind of a snowball, right? Um, the third is curation, right? I think, um, you know, um, there's, um, there's always this pendulum that I think about with anything, right. Where when it first starts, you have a proliferation of content.

And then the pendulum kind of swings to curation, or it needs to swing the creation where it's like, okay, well I have all this content, how am I going to find the stuff that matters to me? Right. And there's usually a layer that sits on top of all that contents, like, well, I will find the best stuff for you to learn if you want to learn X skill.

Um, and then it kind of goes back to content, but I think there's a curation element that needs to kind of happen. And then finally, um, There needs to be some kind of digital accredit accreditation, accreditation. I can't speak, um, element, um, that exists. And I don't exactly know what this looks like. I know a lot of people have strong opinions here, even, not necessarily for, um, high school or college degrees, but I think, um, having a way to showcase that you have these skills, um, that you have this knowledge, whether it's to future employers, whether it's to peers, whether it's to kind of get access into different communities.

Right. Um, I think that's going to be a huge, um, piece that needs to kind of be built that, um, kind of is maybe part of your digital identity as we kind of get into like the metaverse and all of that, right. It's like, it's a kind of like your, your skills, your badges of kind of, of what, you know, and, and what you can do.

So I think those are some fundamental building blocks that need to be built out over the next few years to kind of really make this a kind of a lively, uh, environment. Yeah. And then maybe this is a good, um, um, like a, like a good time for you maybe to get into, uh, what you've been building and what your vision is for, for higher education.

Yeah. No, for sure. Online education. Thanks for letting me plug. Um, Oh, um, so I've been thinking about education quite a bit over the past several months, right. And for me, um, One of the big challenges in our society, writ large is wealth and, and, and opportunity inequality. Um, and you kind of, you know, there's all the stats that I'm not going to repeat them for your listeners here on, you know, the top 1% is X amount of wealth compared to the bottom 50%.

There's all of those stats. Right. But I think fundamentally where we see this play out right, is, um, The people at the bottom. Um, and it's, it's a huge percentage of the population. It's not 5%, it's like 50 plus percent of the population, if not more, um, just doesn't have the, the, the right opportunity and the right mindset about money, um, to, um, uh, to, to kind of have social economic mobility.

And I think where you see that kind of, um, Uh, unfortunately kind of take places, a lot of the nativism that you see a lot of the kind of hyper, um, partisan politics. A lot of that is built in at least one of the fundamental kind of causes in my view is this resentment that, Hey, no matter what my station in life, no matter what I do, I'm not going to be equipped to kind of go, um, uh, attain the opportunities and wealth that someone else has.

Um, and. The kind of, the best thing I can do is just hit another person. And from that perspective, it's very much a scarcity mindset, zero sum game. And so one of the ways I, I view there's a lot of ways to kind of help, um, help that. Right. And a lot of people are working on really cool things. STEM education is huge.

Um, a lot of really interesting education initiatives. Uh, one of the ways that I thought is, uh, kind of underlooked, um, way to, to benefit that is financial education. Um, and to me that really is how do you let money be a tool for you to go, um, chase your life's passions? Um, versus the way a lot of people, unfortunately, view money is how do I mold my life to make enough money to survive.

And those are two very different mindsets people that are wealthier. View, uh, typically have the former and people that are, that are not, unfortunately have the ladder. And when you have the ladder, you're really just a means to an end. And that end is like retirement and, um, and kind of working a job that will pay you money.

So, um, a huge part of that, it's like, Hey, What are the mindsets I need to have about money and more importantly, what are some basic skills and frameworks that I can apply to money to begin accruing wealth began changing my mindset so that whether it's myself or my future generation, um, can really begin thinking about, okay, um, how can I actually have money, um, and apply that so that I can chase my dreams.

Right. Cause the other part, I didn't cover the reason that this kind of entrenched poverty is if you don't get any better, your kids are typically not going to be in position to get any better. And it kind of is this vicious cycle, right? Unfortunately, financial education is not taught in, um, in our schools right by and large.

Um, and well it's stuff that people are learning. Right. You're learning geometry, you're learning. Um, all, everyone probably knows all the presses, right. Um, when they grow up, at least in the U S here, um, Which is great, but again, it goes back to my earlier point. It was great. When knowledge was scarce, when knowledge is abundant, you looked up on Wikipedia, not so much.


[17:40]  Hax cohort based learning platform

And so I think financial education is what I'm working on. So what I'm would have been building is, um, this experience called HAX HAX, which we'll be launching in probably in early may, um, which is going to be a set of. What I call cohort based micro courses on personal finance. And when I say micro course, I mean, so I think for your, for your listeners, just to kind of make sure they understand cohort-based really means, um, you take the experience with a group of your peers, it's time bound.

So all of these start on one date, you end on another date, um, and the idea that you experienced and learn together. Right. And it's a mix of live sessions, like over zoom, a mix of really rich content. And, um, you can, uh, you know, um, uh, look at offline group activities, uh, talking to each other on like Slack or discord.

Um, some ask me anything, um, session. So really it's an, it's a really healthy mix of ways to engage with your instructor with your classmates, work on projects together, and really kind of, um, Uh, work on something in a much more interactive, two way. Um, my mindset versus what we talked about earlier, which is the highly consumptive kind of one way single player mode.

Um, and so I'll be doing micro courses. I call them micro courses cause they're going to be four weeks long and they're gonna be very specific. So instead of doing one on personal finance, writ large I'll I'll I'll I'm planning on having one on student debt, one on how to get started on stock investing one on crypto and how to get started investing there.

Um, and I'll be doing these, uh, as kind of drops where I'll probably drop a few, uh, in may and then kind of gauge what the, um, what the, uh, the responses and kind of go from there. But I'm super excited. I did the private beta was really positive, so I'm really excited to kind of share this knowledge. I think it's definitely something, um, that is needed and I'm okay.

Uh, exclusively targeting gen Z. Cause I think that's like the generation that I think really needs this, um, millennials like me, it's probably too late for us. So, um, it's going to be, um, targeted to 18 to 27 year olds to start looking to expand that based on how it goes. Um, and yeah, you can sign up for the waiting list on, um, learn co, um, or, you know, ping me on Twitter at, at car central, um, to, to learn more and find out more.

All right. Sweet. I will link to below of course, in the show notes.

[20:47]  Why focus your platform on finance education

Then my question would be, why did you, uh, choose to go with personal finance as the number one thing? Why did you identify personal finance to start with. Yeah, it's a really good question because, um, to be transparent with your listeners, I actually, um, thought about all these other life skills that are super important to learn, like how to build strong relationships, nutrition, career strategy, all these things that aren't taught in school either.

Um, that would be really valuable to learn. And in fact, um, I envisioned it taxes successful that, um, we expanded to those verticals down the road. Um, I, um, chose finance for, um, for a couple of different reasons. Um, number one, you know, um, when I look at some of the wealth and opportunity inequality, um, uh, data and anecdotes that we just talked about earlier, I think financial education is like by far the, um, The most tangible and most immediate way to kind of attack that problem.

Um, and you know, all the data kind of suggests that, um, that, you know, gen Z is, um, you know, I think only 13% of gen Z feels even good about their finances. 50% of gen Z feels that money is going to prohibit them from doing what they want in their life. Those are like really alarming numbers to me, right?

Half one out of every two P gen Z, you know, Yeah, people in their twenties and teens feel like they can accomplish what they want in their life due to money. Like, you know, take that data at scale. We're basically disenfranchising half the world's population. Um, and you know, in a time where we have all these crazy crises with, you know, you know, um, climate change and just getting along.

You know, um, all the stuff that we need to figure out, we need all the ideas we can get. Right. And we can't afford to lose half off the bat. Um, I think the other thing very quickly is, you know, personal finance is an area I've spent a lot of time thinking about like a lot over the past few years, weighing, uh, crypto following, um, the, the stock market getting into real estate, getting into angel investing.

So I've spent a lot of time thinking about it. So I felt I was also. Um, I would want to say uniquely, but certainly well equipped to kind of drive this content as an initial kind of, um, uh, like experience for learners, uh, more so than some of the other skills. And, um, it seems with your, with your courses.

Cause I, cause I got a chance to, um, to check them out. Um, it's very project-based and very, uh, hands-on sort of almost wanting to, um, To let the students make mistakes. So they learn. Um, I'm pretty sure that's by design. Can you like speak to that? Yeah. Um, the initial design that I had for my beta exactly was motivated around, um, Stu I want students to do, I want learners to do, and then I want them to.

Um, if they make mistakes that like, I want them to get feedback, not necessarily from me, but really what's really powerful is to get feedback from other people, other learners in the experience. And one of the really interesting data points for my exit interviews for my beta was people actually learned maybe even the most from watching what other people did.

Hmm. Um, so it's not so much, Hey, I experienced the content and now know how to, you know, I think about stock investing and how that works. I even bought my first talk. That's great. But I actually learned how somebody else thought about it. And like that kind of triggered some neurons in my brain of, Hey, it's interesting.

They think about that way. Or as interestingly that they thought about that competition, check it out, whatever the case may be. So. Um, I think, um, like we talked about before, for me, it's really about how can you set the preconditions so that the seed can grow. And for me, you need to kind of get out there and get your hands dirty.

Um, and then kind of see what blooms, one of the things I will tweak. Uh, and, and, um, some of the feedback I got from my beta was, Hey, sometimes the project still felt a bit too homeworky, right? Everyone has a million things going on in their lives. You know, it's kind of feels like a project I have to finish in a week or two.

So I will, I am kind of redesigned some of the content for them, for it to be more immersive. Right. So one initial idea I had that one of my buddies told me about it is for student loans that I'm still toying with, but I want to give you and the viewers, the peak is, Hey, what if let's imagine there's 20 learners in the student loan class?

What if every learner, uh, submitted. Uh, anonymously what their student loan like picture was like, I owe this much money. This is my interest rate. Here are my monthly payments. Here's an undone. And then it's all anonymous. And as part of when the projects, we mixed them all up and your project is to take someone else's loan and figure out based on what you've learned in experience, what is the way that you would think about repaying this right.

How aggressive would you be? Would you, would you consolidate, would you apply for grants? Would you do this? Would you do that? I think it's toying with that idea. Something that is really interesting to me. Cause I think it gives you even an additional added element of you're kind of like now responsible for doing a good job because it's somebody else's.

Life and somebody else's challenge versus your own where you can maybe for your own, you'll be like I'll Slack off a little bit. Um, so that's something where I think there's a lot of interesting opportunities to kind of fit all with the group dynamic that way. Sure. For sure. And I'm just, um, I'm just finishing up myself a court based course, uh, scholarship 30 for 30, where you write a daily essay every day and like it's the accountability structure.

And the, the, the supporting one, another giving one another feedback that that's really what, what makes that course so special. Um, so I think, you know, scaling up those core based, uh, based courses is going to be, you know, key to, um, to successful online learning going forward. Yeah. Can I ask you a question actually?

Um, In the, in that, in that ship for 30, for 30, um, is every kind of session instructor led or are there some sessions where it's just the, the, the learners themselves kind of holding themselves accountable? Like how's it structured? Yeah. So it's, uh, so it's both, so there's two sessions a week. Uh, one of which is, uh, instructor led.

And the other one is just students, uh, amongst themselves. And generally speaking, it's one student coming forward with like, like we had a copywriter for instance, proactively do a session. And we had like, uh, someone the, with like productivity do a session, someone with like, I think it was focused in mindfulness to a session, so it's kind of half and half.

And, um, I really like it that way. Um, I did not expect it to be as great as it is, um, as it was so, um, Didn't actually intend to plug it, but yeah, can, can highly recommend it. Let's put a lot of good things about it. And I think one of the really cool things about this landscape is, you know, I've talked to a bunch of people as well.

Like I think people are incredibly gracious and sharing. What's worked with this model, especially as cohort-based kind of takes off. So, you know, I won't be afraid to admit that what I've kind of built is like kind of borrowing from a lot of different people on what they've learned and what works here and what works.

What works there plus my own special kind of sauce. So, um, yeah, I'm super excited for like this huge trips. I do think, um, you know, in the, in the world of the internet and digital learning, um, you're going to get a lot quicker iteration, right? Like I can go through my experience with iterate on a hundred times in a year, whereas a traditional school, the overhead and all the regulation that exists.

[28:58]  Shared income agreement learning model

Um, you might get one iteration, one change a year. Right. Um, so I think I'm really excited for that. Just to kind of be very fluid. Speaking of like, um, you know, kind of like traditional school online school and like the in-between, um, what comes to mind is Lambda school, which is a, for people that aren't familiar, that are listening right now.

It's, um, I think it's, uh, almost a year long program where they teach you how to code basically zero to hero. And then in exchange for they'll take a cut. I think it's 20 or 30% of your first year's earnings. Um, Only once you get a job and you're making, I think it's more than 50 or 60 K a year or something.

So they assume the risk, which is like revolutionary. And, um,

personally, I want to say I'm bullish on those income. Uh, what are they called? Like shared income agreements or something. Um, but I don't. I want to be bullish on them, but, um, I'm skeptical, uh, as far as like them actually scaling, um, massively, what's your take on them. I'm actually really bullish on. And so I think, look, incentives make the world go around.

I think, no matter what, like if you back with, for education just in general, right? I think we're all incentivized to do different things. That's kind of what makes the world go and w the transformational piece with Lambda and the, and the kind of ISA style, um, Uh, paradigm is that the incentives for the school and for the student are now the same, which is get you trained so that you can get a high paying job.

It's a win-win. Whereas with traditional education, it's get you into the school, get your diploma and get you through four years, whether or not you got a job as kind of a it's important, but it's not the main incentive. And so I think it's. Really great. I think, um, you'll see more of it. Not less, right. I think you'll see more of it for a lot of these professions, right?

Like for example, I think even Austin I'll read who's the CEO of Lambda has talked about nursing as one of the verticals that they've, they're looking to explore next door. Hey, um, you actually need certifications to go to nursing. Um, you need some really important skills, but you don't need to go to nursing school necessarily for four years and drop, you know, 30 or whatever.

It costs a thousand dollars a year. And be in debt for, you know, like it, you know, uh, for 10, 20 years at this really, um, you know, messes up your, your outlook. And it goes back to what we talked about, right. Where you then are basically chasing money to, to, um, uh, to kind of live your life versus the other way around.

And so I do think there's going to be a, uh, um, uh, a slate of professions, maybe not like the highly skilled, super, super, highly skilled ones, like doctors. But I could see where you really need to kind of be in there and you need like a lot of facilities, but I can see nurses, I can even see like lawyers, paralegals, a lot of these kind of mid to high-end, uh, skilled jobs that can kind of go through these, these trade schools, uh, and work through ISA.

So I'm actually pretty bullish on, on, um, where they go from here. Um, and I'm sure there'll be tweaks to the model. Um, but I'm pretty bullish on like where they go. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I know one, one thing I'm also thinking about is, um, sort of like a, um, and you mentioned this in one of your essays as well, sort of like a more masterclass slash Netflix, sort of a content game where.

[32:04]  Future of learning

It's just like right now for so many people, the default is just like, okay, I'm a, I'm a grab my iPad. I'm a, I'm a zone out on Netflix. Um, to like have like a, like a educational Netflix that is like, just as fun or maybe not just as fun, but like maybe it's nine out of 10 or eight out of 10. So that is like, okay, I can like waste an hour or I can actually go learn about, I dunno, crypto.

Yeah. Um, I definitely see that coming in. In fact, before I started, I think I mentioned, you mentioned you wrote that in one of my essays. Um, it's where I started. I think where I struggled with, um, where we go with that is actually my own experience with masterclass. So I'm like, Hey masterclass sounds really good.

Let me try it. And so, and unfortunately with masterclass, you have to sign up for the whole year. You can't do it monthly. So you have to pay this whatever $200 and you're assigned to the whole year. And then I, I tuned into a couple of classes. Yeah. Masterclass is a very high production, right? Like you're getting celebrities best of the best Serena Williams, Steph Curry, awesome chefs.

Right. Um, to kind of share their secrets. Right. Um, Penn and teller for magic. And I, I just lost interest right after a couple episodes because you're just watching, um, And that kind of really pointed me to the direction of, Hey, I think for real learning, you have to have an element of doing. Um, and you have to have an element of, of being in a group of people, um, or I think it's most conducive that way.

Um, so I don't disagree with you. I do think you'll see, um, you know, medium to higher end productions on YouTube, um, or things like that. Right. Um, where you'll, you'll be able to have that kind of great content, um, whether it's on YouTube, Netflix, or some other medium that is, you know, maybe not like masterclass level, but like a notch below that that's, that's very, very strong.

Um, I don't know if you saw that thing floating around on Twitter the other day that like the number one profession that gen Z wants us to be a creator or like a YouTuber it's like 34 Lindsey. So I think you'll see, I think the internet is unbundled and democratize that. So I think you'll see a lot more people creating content.

Right. Um, so I think that's a really good thing. Uh, it's a good way to, um, to get some initial access and I'm not against it. I think it's important to have that. I think it's helpful. I just strongly believe that the most. Impactful way to learn is getting your hands dirty with other people, not just watching.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Do you have any, uh, final thoughts before we wrap up? Um, no. I, I think, um, you know, I'm really excited, uh, to, um, to kind of see what the response is. Uh, one of the thing for, for, for what I'm building, one of the things I've been thinking a lot about is, Hey, um, how to, like what age group do I kind of start off with?

Do I go with the, an older age group that kind of has money and can make choices? Do I go the younger age group? I think the answer is there's no wrong strategy. I should. In fact, both age groups liked what I've, what I've built so far, quite a bit. I'm going to start with the older age group, but I really came away impressed, um, with the younger age group and how they received the content.

And like all of them came with like really nice PowerPoint presentations for their project. So if anything, I'll leave you on this note. Um, whenever I talk to kids and hang out with them, I always come away super impressed by how. Just thoughtful and intelligent, um, and holistic their perspective is, um, and so I'm, I'm very bullish on the future.

And I do think that as bad as some of the situations are now some of the things that we're dealing with, I think, um, you know, I'm super hopeful. I'm hopeful, super confident that, um, the next generation and generations after that will be just better than we were. Um, and be more thoughtful, um, in, in everything they do.

So I'm really excited, uh, for that in general, but I'm also excited to kind of, uh, broaden what I've been building for, for younger kids as well. Cause I think that they've really enjoyed and really get a lot out of it. Yeah, what a great final statement. Thank you so much. No, thank you so much for having me.

Uh, this is actually my very first time as a podcast guest. So I've done, I've hosted the four, but this is my first time as a guest. So I appreciate you. And the viewer is letting me ramble on, um, I'll kind of get my sea legs here eventually, but really appreciate the time. And thank you for having me for sure.

Thank you. Thanks so much for listening. If you liked the podcast, please subscribe and leave a review on iTunes or Spotify and share the episode with someone. You know, it really helped me out a ton new podcasts coming out every Monday. See you next week.